Two commissioners from the U.S. Election Assistance Commission joined the podcast to discuss a new book, “Helping America Vote: Election Administration in the United States,” that was produced jointly by the EAC and NCSL.
A new book published jointly by NCSL and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission is aimed at serving as a resource for election administrators, secretaries of state, state legislators and legislative staff. It will be available soon in digital form on the NCSL website.
“Helping America Vote: Election Administration in the United States” was the focus of this podcast and features a discussion with Commissioners Ben Hovland and Donald Palmer.
The EAC was established by the Help America Vote Act of 2002, which was Congress’ response to the problems with the 2000 election. The commission’s goals include adopting voluntary voting system guidelines, serving as a national clearinghouse for election administration and certifying voting systems. The commissioners are bipartisan. Hovland, chairman until earlier this year, is a Democrat, and Palmer, the current chairman, is a Republican.
The commissioners discussed a variety of topics related to elections including the pros and cons of our decentralized voting system, the importance of election administration as a profession, the value of a bipartisan approach to election administration and who they hope will read this book.
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Ed: Hello and welcome to “Our American States,” a podcast from the National Conference of State Legislatures. I’m your host, Ed Smith.
BH: There is so much that is involved in running elections that most people don’t ever see. As a voter, you have your experience in the polling places. Maybe as a candidate or somebody who runs for election you know you see what you see from that vantage point. But very few people get the perspective of election officials and what goes into administering elections.
Ed: That was Ben Hovland one of four commissioners at the U.S. Election Assistance Commission, an independent bipartisan commission dedicated to helping election administrators across the nation and helping Americans vote. He is my guest on this podcast along with another commissioner, Donald Palmer.
The EAC was established by the Help America Vote Act of 2002, which was Congress’ response to the problems with the 2000 election. The commission’s goals include adopting voluntary voting system guidelines, serving as a national clearinghouse for election administration and certifying voting systems. The commissioners are bipartisan. Hovland, chairman until earlier this year, is a Democrat, and Palmer, the current chairman, is a Republican. The two joined the podcast to discuss “Helping America Vote: Election Administration in the United States,” a new book produced jointly the EAC and NCSL.
The commissioners discussed a variety of topics related to elections including the pros and cons of our decentralized voting system, the importance of election administration as a profession, the value of a bipartisan approach to election administration and who they hope will read this book. In the interest of transparency, I was one of the editors of this publication. The book will be available in digital form soon on the NCSL website.
Here is our discussion.
Commissioners Hovland, Palmer, welcome to the podcast.
BH: Thanks for having us.
DP: Thanks for having us.
Ed: To start, I wonder if you could tell the listeners a little about the EAC and its mission. And Commissioner Hovland, why don’t you take a first crack at that.
BH: Excellent question, Ed. Yeah, so the Election Assistance Commission or the EAC is an independent bipartisan agency. We were created by the Help America Vote Act of 2002, which is really Congress’ response to the 2000 election. They created us to do four main things. First, we test and certify voting equipment. We distribute grant money from Congress. We do something called the Election Administration and Voting Survey, which is the only national survey of its kind that looks out across all 50 states, five territories and the District of Columbia to see how Americans are engaging in the democratic process. How they are getting registered. How they are voting. Is that early voting, in person on election day or by mail. So, we get to learn a lot about what elections look like across the country. Finally, we serve as a clearinghouse for best practices and election administration. With each state running elections a little bit differently, we take that national perspective to look at those differences and identify ways that states are looking to serve their voters and highlight those best practices so that people don’t have to reinvent the wheel.
Ed: Commissioner Palmer, what would you add to that?
DP: Well, Ed, thanks for the question. I think that Commissioner Hovland hit on a lot of the duties under the Help America Vote Act. I would say that we are unique because we you know we are a small agency. We are a bipartisan, independent agency that supports states, assists states and also there is an element of assisting the voter as well, the American citizen and so it is sort of a broad mandate, but we do have some discernable tasks that Commissioner Hovland talked about. I think that one of the things we do is we work with the Congress a lot. But when you are dealing with 50 states, it really is a big country and the territories when they are included and to assist those states, we really have to get out and about and talk to election officials what’s going on on the ground and talking with them directly about their needs so that congress can hear it from us.
Ed: Well, I mentioned the new book that we are here to talk about in my introduction and as I understand it, there hasn’t been a comprehensive book about election administration in this country in almost 100 years. And so, I’d like you to talk about, both of you, about what inspired this project and why you thought it was a good thing to get out there now and Commissioner Palmer, why don’t you take that first.
DP: Well, I don’t know about the 100 years. We had to probably go to the Library of Congress and do a little searching, but I will say that it wouldn’t surprise me because it actually could be very difficult you know. Having to sort of research and talk about 50 states and territories and how they run elections and the diversity of elections and the decentralization of it, that would be a remarkable, difficult task to do. If it hasn’t been done in a hundred years, we thought it was important to do at the 20-year mark. We are just over 20 years since the adoption of the Help America Vote Act and so we first sort of debated to create a field manual for new secretaries of state the come in. I one time I had the California secretary of state come out to Florida and we basically did a couple of days of immersion into elections and I even thought at the time, wow it would be a lot easier if there was a handbook or some other materials. Well, this handbook or this manual turned into what I call the Encyclopedia Brittanica of elections and it really has sort of grown looking at all the 50 states and we are really trying it to be a resource for those that want to dig deeper and have to dig deeper. Legislators, staff, experts and obviously election administrators who want to sort of understand the entire universe of elections and so we thought it was time to make a stab at it and that’s what we did
Ed: Yes, I think it’s going to weigh in at about 200 pages so a little more I should say than a field manual. Commissioner Hovland, what are your thoughts about why this is a good time for this.
BH: Yeah, you know, I think we have seen a lot of increased interest in the nuts and bolts of running elections. And I think one of the things as you mentioned, it is pretty comprehensive. It is, you know, a significant volume, but you know and again that’s really just kind of scratching the surface in some ways. You know, there is so much that is involved in running elections that most people don’t ever see. You know, as a voter, you have your experience in the polling places. Maybe as a candidate or somebody who runs for election you know you see what you see from that vantage point, but very few people get the perspective of election officials and what goes into administering elections. And I think it’s important to understand that see the see all the checks and balances, safeguards and security measures that are in place. You know the bipartisan cooperation in running elections is really important and I think this does a nice job of highlighting that and really as a primer for people who want to understand a little bit more about the breath of how our elections are run across the country.
Ed: I think one thing that every reader will pick up pretty quickly from this book and maybe the central defining characteristic of the American election system is the fact that it is so decentralized, not just to the 50 states, but even within the states there are different ways of doing things in different places. And it’s been debated plenty the pros and cons of this and I wonder if you guys might respond a little bit to that about what you think of the pros and cons and Commissioner Hovland, why don’t you go first.
TM: 8:14
BH: It has definitely been debated. You know it goes certainly all the way back to the beginning of the country on that, but you know when I and I know over the course of my career I’ve probably flipped around a couple of times on this. But I think where I’ve really arrived at is appreciating the decentralized nature of our elections in particular, I love the fact that it allows states to make decisions to serve their voters. Our states are different. You know you have significant differences in geographies and a number of factors and so being able to address how best to serve your state I think is a big deal. But it also really allows for opportunities for innovation. I worked at the U.S. Senate for about 5 ½ years and I can tell you if we were waiting on federal legislation to fix everything in elections, we would be waiting a long time. And so, you know the ability to have states go out there experiment a little, innovate a little bit and prove out a concept and we see that spread around the country. An example I use a lot is Arizona, which really pioneered online voter registration. People liked it. The minute they found out it saved a bunch of money and so then people really liked it. And now 41 states and the District of Columbia have it so certainly that is a big plus. On the con side, you know if you think we see confusion particularly social media doesn’t really respect state borders. Even traditional media doesn’t. You know, you turn on the news and they might say early voting starts today. Well, if that media you know if that TV station crosses a state line, it might have been one state and not the other so that certainly presents some challenges. And one of those that I think is really important to talk more about you know we’ve already hit on a couple of times how each state runs elections a little differently. But the things that we have in common across the states are that the people who run our elections are professionals. They follow the law as passed by their state legislature and they are transparent in the process and so those things are consistent even if the way the election is administered varies little again based on those state laws.
Ed: Well, I guess social media and federalism probably don’t really have a lot of hookups. Commissioner Palmer, let me ask you what do you see. What do you see as the pros and cons?
DP: Well, I guess I could start with the pros. I mean I agree with Commissioner Hovland on just about everything he mentioned. You know generally elections are very well run at the local level and they are accountable and they are closer to the people. So, they sort of understand what the nuisances or what the needs are in the local community. I mean theoretically you might say well we think the state and federal government can provide better service. But the reality of it is when you think about it if you’ve ever served at the state and federal level, that is just an impossibility. We are in no position to do so. We really are sort of in a supportive role. And that is simply because its too big of a country for that. I think that when it comes down to it local administrators like to accommodate their voters and they know their voters the best and that really is true and the best pro for that decentralization. Now the cons I agree with Commissioner Hovland. It can be confusing within a state of the different methods and when an early voting site might be open. It can be very confusing even in within a state much less the country where states are doing things differently, different methods of voting, different deadlines. Maybe even different postal service delivery times. It’s amazing what could be different and that is a huge challenge that we are finding and voters get confused.
Some of the other things are is that the local administrator in a rural county may not have the same amount of resources as a larger county. That makes it even more acute that sort of differential so it is not just decentralized. It is almost different and there is a disparity there and I call one of those aspects the cyber poverty levels. Sometimes we really have smaller counties or rural areas that are just operating at a different level of security and efficiency than the larger counties and we have to account for that. And so, as a whole, it’s hard to maintain a uniformity across the country when there are so many differences and so many levels of you know appropriations and that sort of thing so we have our pros and we also have our cons.
Ed: Let me ask you about the audience for this book. You had joked about it being a field guide for secretaries of state. I guess there’s different audiences and Commissioner Palmer, who would you say are the target audience here?
TM: 13:09
DP: When I think about, the original thought was legislators and secretaries of state to sort of give them a sense of what elections are, but when you really think about it and our clearinghouse team reflects a lot of this is that there are so many differences in details in the way elections are run, we want to explain that. So, an expert in the field or a legislator or legislative staff, for example, they would be able to dig a little deeper and find out the details and the knowledge within this book. That would give them sort of an understanding on how elections may be in another state that you are looking at or a policy that you may not have thought of before. It really sort of helps people understand the federalism of elections when they are developing their own policies.
Ed: Commissioner Palmer, let me stick with you for a second. This book over 19 chapters touches on governing and districts and precincts how they are made, voting tech, voter registration, recounts. A whole of more things and I wonder is there one area of election administration you think is underappreciated from a policy point of view by maybe people in legislatures or other people in state government.
DP: I would say voter registration and voter communication between states. States really don’t communicate well with each other in any area of government that I see in the research stuff. That includes, for example, driver’s license agencies. They are light years ahead of us though in elections. But it is just remarkable the lack of communication and data standardization between states. And so, explaining that to an election official is difficult, but it really to a legislator or experts having them dig a little deeper into voter registration and what it means to go onto a voter registration role and to be updated or to be removed, the compliance with state and federal law, it’s actually very complicated. And when a researcher or a stakeholder, staff, legislator can understand all the different aspects of the issue, we are hopeful that they will be better in drafting legislation or policies and understanding with election officials need in these areas.
Ed: And Commissioner Hovland, how do you see it? Do you think there is an area that’s underappreciated from a policy point of view?
BH: One of the things that the book really does a good job of highlighting is how much is involved and really to me that really drives home two policy thoughts. One, election administration in this country is chronically underfunded and we’ve seen more and more challenges for election administrators in recent years. And so, I do think it is important for people to understand what goes into running elections. What goes into running the elections that we expect and deserve as far as security, accuracy, integrity, accessibility, etc. You know, we want to have robust elections in this country, but that involves paying for them. But the other piece you know really again there are so many elements of election administration and one of the things I think the book helps you see is the inner connectiveness of that. So, if I was thinking about that as a policymaker in particular is is the potential for unintended consequences. You know if I was a state legislator, I would not want to really be pushing an election bill that I had not had a conversation with local election officials you know not about whether or not I mean certainly you always want to know whether or not somebody likes the policy idea, but that it is doing what you want it to do and not doing other stuff because everything has an impact on other areas of the election, you know it’s important to really review that and think about that and understand and make sure you are avoiding those unintended consequences.
Ed: One aspect of this book is a series of interviews with local election officials and if there can be a feel-good part of a book about election administration, I’d say it is probably reading the quotes from them and the incredible work that they put into their jobs. Commissioner Hovland, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about election administration as a profession and some of the workforce challenges, we are seeing there. Of course, we are seeing them all across the economy, but certainly in the election workforce as well.
BH: Yeah. You know, to me, election administration is an amazing profession and the election administrators that I’ve had the privilege of meeting all across the country are some of the finest Americans and just you know really their commitment to our communities and to our democracy is impressive. But certainly, you know I mentioned this a little bit, election administration has changed a lot in the last several years and that means the job has changed. Pre-Help America Vote Act, so 20 a little over 20 years ago, you know, mostly elections occurred on one day. It was just really a large logistical undertaking, but in recent years, you know, you have more technology coming into this space. You have more options for voting and those are a good thing for voters. But it makes it harder. It makes it more challenging and then certainly in the last several years, we’ve seen an array of new challenges ranging from cybersecurity to the information environment to some physical threats and harassment that we’ve seen out there as well. And really asking election officials to do more and more. And so of course, that takes a toll. We have seen a lot of turnover in the field. Some of that is a generation aging out and retiring. You know some of that is the nature of the work changing. Certainly, some of that is you know a lot of our election officials are elected. You know sometimes some of those folks choose to run for treasurer because it pays the same and it is easier. But you know again, by and large, you know it is a hard job, but it is a rewarding job because you are the front lines of helping Americans make their voices heard in participating in our democracy.
Ed: As we get ready to wrap up, I wanted to ask both of you to reflect on the fact that the publishers of this book, EAC and NCSL, are both bipartisan organizations. I wonder if you could reflect on the importance of that bipartisan approach in the area of elections and Commissioner Hovland, why don’t you start?
TM: 19:46
BH: Yeah. Thanks for that question. You know I think it really is critical. You know one of the things that I say when people ask things like this, I say you can tell good election administration to me is not based on partisanship. It is based on good governance and customer service and taking that mentality of serving American voters. And when you have that, I think you can actually find a lot of bipartisan agreement. I remember you know Commissioner Palmer and I came onto the commission together and one of the first events we ever did, we got a question from the then Louisiana secretary of state and he basically said you know how are you guys going, you know, I guess reach across the proverbial aisle and work together. And I think I joked that you know that we would just do the stuff we agreed on first and then we would get to the other stuff. Well six years later, we still haven’t gotten to that other stuff because there really is a lot that you can agree on when you focus on the voters, when you focus on serving the state and local election officials around the country and just improving the process. So, you know, proud of the work that we’ve done, but I also think it’s a good reminder that regardless of your party, there is a lot that we have in common when we look at how we can serve Americans and make and help all Americans make their voice heard.
Ed: And Commissioner Palmer, you are going to get the last word here so what are your thoughts on that?
DP: Well, I think the bipartisan nature of election administration is important and primarily because they are stakeholders; not just elected officials or candidates, but the American people they have a stake in having free and fair elections that are not partisan or not being run in a partisan way. And so, there are many parts of policy that don’t lend themselves to the partisan debate when it comes to election administration. In fact, most things are making sure the trains run on time and making sure that elections work for everyone. And so, that is really a nonpartisan goal, but it takes a lot of effort and it doesn’t mean we don’t have policy sort of ideas or ideas that can maybe improve the process, but we are focused on that 95% of things and 90% of things that would make elections better – those fundamentals. And that really is what we are trying to focus on. And the policy debates are going to incur. We don’t want the debate to get lost on election administration in that bigger battle over some of the policies. We all believe that the elections should reflect the electorate and the electorate is obviously made up of more than one party. It is made up of the American people.
Ed: Well, I think that’s a great note to end on and gentlemen, thank you both so much for taking the time to do this and I certainly really recommend this book to anyone who is interested in election administration. It does cover it from soup to nuts. Thanks very much. Take care.
BH: Thanks for having us.
DP: Thank you, Ed.,
Ed: I’ve been speaking with EAC Commissioners Ben Hovland and Donald Palmer about the commission’s new book produced jointly with NCSL titled “Helping America Vote: Election Administration in the United States.”Thanks for listening.
You can check out all the podcasts from the National Conference of State Legislatures by searching for NCSL podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast, “Our American States,” dives into some of the most challenging public policy issues facing legislators. On “Across the Aisle,” host Kelley Griffin tells stories of bipartisanship. Also check out our special series “Building Democracy” on the history of legislatures.
TM: 23:41